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Julie Winkle Giulioni: Help Them Grow Or Watch Them Go! (Ep. #21)

The BetterManager Team
Building Better Managers Podcast Episode 21 - Julie Winkle Giulioni

Building Better Managers Podcast Episode #21: Help Them Grow Or Watch Them Go!

Many companies are missing ways to focus on career development. When managers don’t talk to their team members about career development, many people feel stuck. Especially now, we need to look at career development as a “Climbing Wall” not a “Career Ladder”.

Julie Winkle Giulioni, co-authored Help Them Grow or Watch Them Go to give managers a playbook. Join us for this great conversation which will help you develop a plan for your team, or yourself!

In this episode:

Meet Julie Winkle Giulioni

  • How the ideas in Help The Grow Or Watch Them Go grew and developed.
  • How BetterManager uses the concepts in our Master Class coaching & training.

Career Development as a "Climbing Wall"

  • People used to stay with an employer for long periods of time, and wait patiently for 18 months or two years for the organization to come pat them on the shoulder and be moved up to the next rung – there was a predictable sort of career progression.
  • Unfortunately it doesn't play out like that any longer. The workplace is wildly different. We've got downsizing & outsourcing. Boomers, are living longer and working longer as well. And work is getting done more organically, organized around needs around customers, and isn't the tiny boxes that we used to have. And then there's the whole gig economy piece.
  • How The Climbing Wall is a much better metaphor for thinking about the current state of career development.
  • You've still got the ability to go up, if that's what you want, when those opportunities are still there, but there are a gazillion ways to get from one point to another.
  • There's also tons of space laterally, to be able to make lateral moves.
  • So sometimes you have to go down a notch to move over to move up – it's more dynamic that way.
  • And If we are intentional about what we're doing within the role we're currently in, if we are able to absorb and accept opportunities & challenges, all of these things can help is grow.


  • Questions and conversations that help an individual look inward and backward at: who they are; what they do; what they love; what their natural talents and superpowers are; where their interests lie; what their values are; and maybe what they don't want to do as well.
  • All of that foundational information that you think about when you think about when helping someone in terms of their career.
  • It's also the same kind of information that we typically seek out during an employment interview!
  • Keeping that conversation going after throughout the evolving employee journey.


is a little less intuitive, because these are questions and conversations that asked individuals to think about what are the needs of the organization you know what going on in our industry, how are things changing? And even bigger than that, you know, on a more global scale, what's going on in terms of the environment, changing demographics, and geopolitical situations?

  • This may be a little less intuitive, because these are questions and conversations that asked individuals to think about: what are the needs of the organization; what's going on in our industry;  how are things changing; on a more global scale, what's going on in terms of the environment; what are the changing demographics and geopolitical situations.
  • It's the kind of stuff that you normally sort of relegate to strategic planning conversations.
  • People need the "bigger-picture" perspective.


  • Where Hindsight and Foresight overlap and intersect – that's what we call Insight.
  • That sweet spot can be mined for possibilities, opportunities, action and learning.
  • We create a win-win set of circumstances, because we're taking care of what is going to nourish the employee, what they want to do, in the context of what's going to help the business.

Implementation Considerations

  • Shorter, more consistent conversations over time convey a real commitment to the employee.
  • The process should be equally appropriate for an individual to use themselves - to take the appropriate responsibility for their own career.
  • Always be networking!

Downloads & Resources

Follow Julie on LinkedIn here.

Julie's website.

Get the Help Them Grow app for iPhone on the Apple App Store.

Get the Help Them Grow app for Android on Google Play.

Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform!

Check out our blog articles on Leadership here.

Julie Winkle Giulioni

Julie Winkle Giulioni helps organizations enhance learning, engagement, retention, and the bottom line. Her consulting firm, DesignArounds, specializes in enterprise-wide learning experiences and custom training. Named one of Inc. Magazine’s top 100 speakers, Julie has traveled from Russia to China to Lithuania and beyond helping leaders around the world help others grow. She’s a sought-after speaker for consistently delivering creative insights as well as practical takeaways that change behavior.

Episode Transcript
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